14 Comments

  1. It was Farage and Johnson who ignored democracy when they misled the electorate. The panel looks as if it’s composed of balanced individuals such as Anna Soubry and Ken Clark, so perhaps some reason will prevail over facts as opposed to emotion over fantasy.

    1. Soubry and Clark are Tory rebels, not part of our mainstream party.
      The misinformation in the run up to the referendum was from the remain side. It was known as “Project fear”. All their bizarre predictions were proven to be bogus.
      The economy is doing really well. Exports are at a record high. Employment is at record levels. The deficit is shrinking.
      Take a trip to Docklands and view the massive development taking place. Dozens of new skyscrapers are being built at Canary Wharf to accommodate global financial institutions. It is a boom not seen since the Wharf was first established.

      1. Soubry and Clark are the few voices of reason left in the Tory Party. They are rebelling against the relentless drift to the right and I hold them in esteem.
        The label “Project Fear’ simply represents a denigration of all that the experts had predicted (and of course experts too had to be denigrated). Look at the lost value of the Pound in our pockets; the loss of scientific collaboration with our European allies; the loss of British input into pharmaceutical standards and the uncertainty for British industry. Not to mention the Irish border problem that is effectively insurmountable if Brexit goes ahead as envisaged by the hard right.

        You cherry pick a fact about London that is quite unrelated to Brexit, but I’ll give you one that is. One hundred London constituencies have moved from Leave to Remain according to a recent opinion poll published in today’s Observer. The penny’s dropping throughout the land and the reckless ideologues such as Johnson can now be seen in their true colours. Whatever May manages to negotiate will be no doubt still be called Brexit, but thank goodness it won’t really be. No Prime Minister would wish to go down in history as the one who ruined their own country’s prosperity. That’s what Soubry and Clark are rebelling against: Britain’s ruination by feckless fantasists. Good for them, and although I’m not a Conservative voter they have my good wishes.

  2. Well Allan, both Soubry and Clark may be two of the few voices of reason in the Tory party, however I don’t know what Ken told his constituents when the result was announced but I distinctly remember Anna saying that although she wasn’t happy with the result, she would work hard to ensure that OUR decision to leave on good terms was achieved. (When I read that on Bramcote Today I thought hmm, possibility that she might do something worthwhile eventually). Unfortunately for us all (Country and Constituency) that is something that she has completely failed to do. Where all sides have fallen down is quite simply that they have failed to actually discover why the majority of people voted the way they did, and then act upon those findings.

    I attended a ‘hustings’ (if that is the correct term) at the Pearson Centre in Beeston that included Carslake (UKIP) and three others, one being a young lady (remainer) whose name now escapes me. She agreed that the EU was broken and should be changed from within so on that basis we should vote to remain. This being a very few days after Junker, or the then EU President, had stated categorically that irrespective of the good ideas and suggestions emanating from the various member countries governments and populations there would be absolutely no deviation to the set path as decided by the few unelected “statesmen”. The set path being a Federated European State.

    My personal opinion is that we should have put forward the idea that we reverted to what the UK signed up to in 1973 but if that wasn’t acceptable certainly to before Blair signed the Lisbon Treaty in 1993.

    I am not going to repeat arguments I’ve put forward before, however I will say that because of the insults and aspersions that have been bandied about by the remain fraternity against those of us who voted (by a majority) to leave I am even less inclined to change my mind.

    1. “Where all sides have fallen down is quite simply that they have failed to actually discover why the majority of people voted the way they did, and then act upon those findings.”

      The tiny majority who voted Leave did not have a clue what they were voting for and were well and truly misled. As a Remainer I didn’t know what leaving meant any more than anyone else did so I voted to retain the status quo. Anything else would have been sheer recklessness or blind faith, as it’s better the Devil you know than the one you don’t. But this is what we’ve inherited and a sorry shambles it has turned out to be. Populism has gone past its sell-by date although Boris and Trump still seem to think that it still has some mileage left in it. I’ve got some bad news for them.

      You talk about the insults and aspersions bandied about by the Remainers, so why am I and my friends/colleagues called ‘Remoaners’? What seems to differentiate the Leavers from the Remainers is not so much which side they’re on but how aware of counterarguments the Remainers are, whereas the Leavers have a false confidence that they got it right in the face of mounting evidence that they didn’t. The Leavers behave more like cult members than rational beings capable of examining evidence and they seem only to be able to see one side of an argument.

  3. If a lower pound brings so many benefits to our nation, let us hope it remains at these levels for as long as possible.
    Imports continue to fall. Exports are soaring. If the FTSE 100 rises any further, it will collide with the I.S.S.
    Unlike the Eurozone, the UK can control the exchange rate. The Bank of England merely raises interest rates.
    Yes a bottle of Chianti in Rome may cost a British tourist a few more Deutschmarks , sorry “Euros”, but that is a microscopic price to pay for all the benefits Brexit brings us.

    1. “..all the benefits Brexit brings us.”

      Forgive me, just what were they again? And then, just for balance, what are the drawbacks? If these pros and cons had been spelled out to the electorate we wouldn’t have got ourselves into this sorry mess. I blame Cameron for not insisting on a supermajority when the constitution was at stake. Unforgivable really, but there we are. Funny we never hear about him any more whereas the big hitters such as Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are still working hard to look after Britain although they are no longer in government. Roll on an early General Election I say.

    2. Just a bit of balance here Howard. When I was working I had to travel (often) at fairly short notice all over Europe. As a consequence I had lots of little bags in my big bag, that were full of Pfennigs, Francs, Belgian Francs, Lire etc. The Euro did away with all that and I was happy knowing that my Euros were accepted nearly everywhere I went and I didn’t need to bother about using my cards with all the extra charges as I had a Euro bank account.

      1. The Euro may be convenient, but it eliminates a nations control over its currency. Decisions are made in Frankfurt at the E.C.B. Germany again! In fact the only nation to benefit from the Euro has been Germany. The Euro has been catastrophic for the poorer nations of southern Europe.
        Fortunately Italy has woken up and their Five Star/League government are preparing for a new lira to run as a parallel currency. Leaving the EU will be far easier for the Italians once they have their own currency once more and can control interest rates.

  4. It seems to me when talking to others that I am one of the few in my age group (I am in my 80’s) that voted to Remain. There will be no more European arrest warrants to assist Police forces in this country to take criminals into custody and it may well mean that we become a safe haven for miscreants from other European countries. At my time of life my wanderings around Europe have ceased, so the fact that there may be delays at borders, more expensive phone calls home and more costly food in this country and when eating out abroad will probably not affect me for too long. However, my children and grandchildren and all future generations will be affected I guess whatever the negotiated outcome to that horrible word ‘BREXIT’ leaves us with.

    1. Ok Peter, the European Arrest Warrant will cease. This is a decision made by Barniere and Junckter not by us. However it can soon be replaced by a new warrant between the security/police forces of the countries of the EU and ourselves. The EU is primarily a trading organisation so in theory crime and justice is outside its remit. The UK is already a safe haven for miscreants thanks in part to our having had several Home Secretaries who are not up to the job.
      Your comment about ‘roaming’ charges is a part of ‘project fear’ as I read yesterday morning on the BBC news app, that two telecom companies (EEE & 1 other) so far, had stated that things will stay as they are and that the Govt. has said that if the others don’t comply legislation will be rapidly introduced to force them. In such a case I would expect refunds, compensation and a heavy fine.

      Goods purchased abroad are always going to be differently priced. The cost of a 33cl beer in Brussels is different to a 33cl beer in Bergamo or St Nazaire. The cost of that beer in Brussels in the Grand Platz is vastly more expensive than the same beer in Piccasso’s Zaventem. Zaventem being where Brussels International Airport is. Also the cost of beer in the EU is more than UK on the whole.

      Yes Peter, future generations ARE going to be affected by our leaving the EU. Exactly as they would be affected had Britain voted to remain.

      BREXIT is a lot simpler than having to say, or write, “Britains Exit from the European Union”.

      1. ‘BREXIT is a lot simpler than having to say, or write, “Britains Exit from the European Union”.’

        But proving impossible to do without damaging the country!

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