Comment from Nick Palmer former MP for Broxtowe

nickpAs usual, apologies for the long ap since m last update: it’s been a busy period for me for non-political reasons. For the same reason, I’ll just write briefly this time. With the media utterly focused on London and Scotland, it’s worth noting that Labour won the Police Commissioner election in Nottinghamshire and specifically in Broxtowe, by a 1000-vote margin. Congratulations to everyone in the local party for working so hard to achieve this success, and to Paddy Tipping for his huge victory. The overall position remains difficult to read, with all the major parties suffering from internal dissent – I suspect that the party that sorts itself out first will get a lasting edge. In the meantime, we have the European referendum to look forward to. As you know, I support membership (because I think it’s unwise to detach ourselves from the European community) and it seems to me that the Leave campaign is suffering from a lack of coherent message: exactly what would they like us to do if we left? Half seem keen on immediately joining EFTA, which would retain free movement precisely as it is now; the other half want to pull out altogether and adopt a detached role which they’ve compared with Canada and Albania. Prominent supporters of Leave include Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen: it’s reasonable to suggest that none of these inspire much confidence as serious and responsibl figures. The police are now investigating the curious spending declaration on the Tory battle bus last year in Broxtowe and at least 7 other constituencies. As I understand it, the campaigners on the bus had their accommodation paid in each marginal that they visited, but presented themselves as campaiging for the local candidates. The question is whether that should have been declared within the constituency spending limit or was merely a “national” expeniture, like a newspaper advert. If it should have been declared as local, then the spending limit was overshot, which would be a serious offence. In fact, I’m told that it wasn’t declared either as local or national spending, until the Conservatives belatedly declared it as national. I have an obvious axe to grind so I won’t express an opinion, except to say that we really need electoral spending rules that are easily understood and actually work in limit spending – otherwise we will end up with the Trump scenario of the richest candidate steamrolling opponents. Best regards Nick

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34 Responses to Comment from Nick Palmer former MP for Broxtowe

  1. Steve Carr says:

    Mr Tipping has reduced Neighbourhood Policing in Beeston to 1 Beat Manager and 2 PCSOs, this is the number I had covering Beeston North when I was first elected 13 years ago. It’s nothing to do with cuts and everything to do with favouring the City. Wollaton have 9 officers.

    The sooner someone gets rid of this pathetic role the better.

    • Joan Wade says:

      I agree – This was one of the big policy mistakes of the Liberal Democrats when in coalition.

      • Steve Carr says:

        Coalition is the key word Joan. Sometimes you have to agree things to get your own essential policies through. Out trade off was free school meals for infant school children. I would have expected you to understand coalition means you cannot always get your way.

      • Joan Wade says:

        This policy was part of the coalition agreement. Do you know Mr Carr which party out of the two put forward the proposal? Perhaps you would like to have a go at answering the question before I say more.

  2. Graham Taylor says:

    I have never been able to gauge what effect , if any, a Police Commissioner has had, anywhere.

    One thing I know is that the post should NOT be political. It would be much better if the candidates had a knowledge of policing , first and foremost, not to be there to represent a political dogma.

    Where I do agree with Nick is that staying in the EU is essential. This was hit home to me again yesterday when talking to a local builder. His argument was that immigrants are taking all the jobs, from white working class people. We managed before so we should go back to the 1970s (or further) and we would manage ok and stop immigration.

    This is a very ignorant and dangerous supposition but it is one supported by many older people who are just not living in 2016, but living in the distant past.

    Leaving the EU will do nothing for the so called working class. Immigration will not change but jobs will be severely restricted if we cut ourselves off from our main markets.

    Do all you can Nick to persuade a REMAIN vote. Brexit would be a disaster for our country. Isolationism, in a global economy is unthinkable.

    • Barry Morrison says:

      This same subject cropped up in a discussion with some friends last week about immigrants taking all the jobs from white people and the NHS would collapse if it was’nt for immigrants..Well my answer to that is rubbish..The immigrants have been getting these jobs for years now which begs one important question…Where were all the eager indigenous white people when these jobs were going begging?..They did’nt want the jobs at all, that’s the problem.
      I’ve heard many of them say they would’nt work on fruit or veg harvesting, or they would’nt work in food preparation factories…As for working for the NHS, don’t mention night or weekend or funny shift working to some of them..They’d run a mile.

  3. Barry Morrison says:

    I fully agree with Steve Carr on this one. Lord alone knows how much money is spent on the campaign and administration for running this largely ineffectual farce..

  4. Barry Morrison says:

    Graham. Where do you get the idea that jobs will be restricted if we leave the EU.?.This is like agreeing with Nick Cleggs statement that 3 milions UK jobs would be lost(a statement that he had to withdraw because he knew it was false)
    If there are any job losses if we vote to leave the EU you can bet they won’t be this side of the channel.
    On the other hand, and I’d appreciate a reply from Graham as to why we should remain in the EU, given the fact that the EU seem hell bent on signing and agreeing to TTIP
    Given that the TPP system with South Korea did’nt work and cost the South Koreans many thousands of jobs, and the trade agreement with Canada also cost many thousands of Canadian jobs..Don’t you realise that TTIP is an American idea and that the Yanks don’t do anything unless it’s in their interests.
    And if we stay in the EU and this TTIP is accepted, agreed and signed then you can expect within 15 years most of the NHS will be contracted out to American owned franchises.
    Is this what you want?

  5. Ian Blakeley says:

    The EEC was a really good idea. Free trade between local (i.e. European) nations getting rid of often duplicated ‘red tape’ aided the business’s of the community. The downside of that was that we were expected to ignore the rest of the world, with as it turned out a big Or Else…… Nowhere was it written, at least as far as we the populace were told, that the ultimate aim was to create a gigantic undemocratic organisation that isn’t even under the control of the European Parliament. It is said that a good reason for remaining in the EU is that 44% of our trade is with EU countries. That then means that we trade more with the Rest of the World. Also it appears that much of our exports to Belgium and the Nederlands are then exported via Rotterdam and Antwerp. However we buy more from the EU than we export to it. The EU needs Britain more than we need it, after leaving we will still import cars from Germany, Cheese from France and Wine from Spain. They will still want to purchase British goods and as the EU depends more on us it is unlikely that there will be much change. There are 510 million people in the EU, in the rest of the world in 2013 there were 7.125 Billion.

    Cameron has negotiated a deal (of sorts) with the EU. What he hasn’t told us is that it has to be ratified by the governments of the EU states (There has to be 100% acceptance), the EU parliament and the Commission, and they will inform us of their decisions AFTER June 23. If we stay in they will reject the deal (remember ALL the states have to agree), if we leave it won’t matter what they think.

    The President of the United States said that we should remain, because that will be good for the US. Watching the various interviews/questions with Obama I was struck by the lack of one particular question – Would he agree to the United States Govt and Supreme Court being overruled by others. The answer would of course be no so why should Britain allow such a thing to happen. The USA wouldn’t join the EU, yet Obama thinks it’s a good thing.

    The immigration issue is a red herring thrown out as bait by the Remain faction, and boy oh boy haven’t some people bitten (just like the builder mentioned above). Personally I think that if people want to work here they should be able to, but the same rules should apply as in the US, Canada, Australia and other parts of the world. That is, if the job cannot be filled by anyone already legally resident, they come to a confirmed job offer, and if they leave (for whatever reason) within 36 months they return to their own country and start the process all over again.

    Mr Taylor in 1975 we were lied to by the politicians of the day (and previously) and a lot of people object to that. We are still being lied to by politicians over the EU, particularly the remain supporters and now it’s time to dump the whole rotten, corrupt outfit. Will there be huge job losses, not really and mainly they will be the ones with their First Class seats on the EU gravy train.

    • Graham Taylor says:

      What a naïve view. The moment we attempted to pull out of the EU the barriers would go up. The EU would not want any other country leaving so any attempt to renegotiate move favourable terms would fail.

      This in itself is no reason for voting Remain, but the chances of a right wing (as opposed to centralist Tory Party) will be in no position to negotiate with anyone. Boris Johnson, if he became PM would not even be able to negotiate with himself let alone others (he might be ok with his mate Vladamir ).

      Can you imagine the time it will take to renegotiate? Can you imagine the damage done to The City and Businesses in Britain. It would be a disaster. How many jobs would be lost??

      We were not lied to by the politicians in 1975. Then we were very much in the same position as Leave are in today. No one was sure what would happen. Leave can say nothing positive. All the can say is Fear Fear Fear.

      I would rather trust the good folk of this country to make the right decision and agree with the Bookies who say that Remain are way out in front. I don’t want to be associated with the Dads Army Brigade, who are locked in a time warp. This is 2016.Its is a global village. We have to belong not be isolationists , run by the Torries !! That would be a disaster!!

    • Ian Blakeley says:

      Naive Graham? I rather suspect that it’s you who is Naive. If the remaining countries are told by the Unelected Commissars (deliberately misspelt) of the EU that they are not to trade with us once we have left what do you think will happen. Will they roll over and say ‘Yes Sir’, or will they, particularly Germany, tell them to get stuffed. Remember, they sell us more than we sell to them. They put up a tariff barrier, we do the same and double it. Remember also that the City exists only for the benefit of an elite group of bankers, nothing to do with us mere mortals at all. If you wish to discuss about stock markets please do so. As Barry says we were lied to by the politicians in 1975, if you think that NOT telling people that remaining in the EEC would result in loss of sovereignty when the organisation became a Union isn’t lying then quite honestly there’s no hope for you. Full facts said Harold Wilson, conveniently forgetting about future plans. A huge lie.

      There is no need to negotiate anything regarding trade. A wants to buy goods from B for use or resale. Asks B what the price is and discusses the best deal. Hands over money, collects goods and uses or resells at profit. Both A and B then pay taxes to their appropriate tax authority. Job done. No need for an extra person to get involved and screw the whole thing up. Simple.

      The good people of the UK can be trusted to make their own decision on remaining or not. Personally I hope that we leave.

  6. Barry Morrison says:

    And only today (Monday) we’ve had the latest from David Cameron about the possibilities of war, however remote…This man is continually talking complete and utter claptrap.

    • Joan Wade says:

      For several millennia European nations were at war with each other – often over trade matters. This all ceased when the common market / EU came into being. I am not aware of any EU country being at war with another EU country. For reasons stated elsewhere on this site Europe is not going to be keen on letting us trade on favourable terms if we pull out of the EU, the US has stated that we must go to the back of the queue, we have just insulted the Chinese and the Nigerians. Hopefully Brexit will never happen but surely nobody is in any doubt that we face a very wretched future if we go down the path of economic isolationism,. There are over 800,000 British people in Spain alone that we may well need to accommodate at short notice and many thousands more elsewhere.

      • Barry Morrison says:

        According to people I know in Spain,The Balearics, The Canaries and the Greek Islands there does’nt seem to be a problem as long as they carry on as normal, i e, working or living there and paying taxes, insurance and any dues and demands which are applicable in that country

      • Barry Morrison says:

        Odds on they’ll all stay there spending there money in Spanish shops and will not need to relocate..Why should they..The idea is to leave the EU, not to leave Europe..If we do leave the EU no country is going to repatriate ex-pats or whatever you want to call them in Spain, Greece, Italy, France or whereever..Again. Why should they?. They’re all spending money which helps the economies of the countries worst affected by the disastrous euro..

      • Ian Blakeley says:

        The wars in Europe had little if anything to do with trade Joan. It was down to various rulers having private quarrels with their ‘relatives’? and in the case of certain others Phillip, Napoleon, Mussolini and Hitler come to mind it was simply that they wanted to rule over others in the immediate vicinity. The EU has had nothing to do with peace in Europe, Being in NATO has helped keep the peace as ‘we’re all in it together’ to quote a rather misguided individual.

      • Graham Taylor says:

        Don’t think you understand your history too well Ian. Most wars of this nature were driven by economic failure, Viz The Great Crash (Hitler) , late 18th century economic malaise (Napoleon) , and Mussolini (well he was a coat tail hanger on.).

        Expansionism was a way to drive up the economic fortunes of France (Napoleon ) and Germany (Hitler)

        These wars would not have happened without economic desperation. Nothing like the situation we have in Europe but very like the situation in many African Countries today.

      • Ian Blakeley says:

        Why would we need to accommodate over 800,000 British people at short notice Joan, are they going to suddenly be deported just because UK leaves the EU.

      • Joan Wade says:

        Ian – Nobody knows the answer to that question. The Spanish people may well say that they are happy to sacrifice their own interests and work to support our ex-pats come what may – with welfare support, health care provision etc. We just do not know how our European partners will react when we tear everything up and throw in at them telling them that we want everything we still have but will contribute nothing in return

      • Ian Blakeley says:

        Joan, I own a house in Spain and therefore have to pay tax there, like all other non-residents. Also the Brits who are living there pay their tax to the Spanish Govt., I somehow don’t think that will change in the near (or far) future.

  7. Barry Morrison says:

    According to Graham Taylor ”We were not lied to by the politicians in 1975.” Really Grahaam?
    Apart from the continuing ”It’s only a trade agreement and nothing more” and the famous Harold Wilson statement ”It won’t change anything”, I could go on but there’s no point.
    Anyone with half a brain could see that it was never going to be just a trade agreement.
    I remember a German businessman once said the me ”This is going to get too big and whatever monetary system they have will cause many problems to a lot of people”..That was in 1961 when only six countries were involved in the then EEC.

  8. Barry Morrison says:

    Wars in Europe eased due to the Coal and Steel act of 1948 which was designed to stop European countries using these commodities to manufacture arms to use against each other..It was nothing to do with the Commom Market or the EU, although aforesaid act was the predeccesor to the Treaty of Rome which in itself begat the EEC..Remember in ’96 when the EU interfered in the Balkans and made such a mess of it that NATO, led of course by US troops had to sort it out?. That’s what’s kept the peace in europe..NATO

  9. Howard Shakespeare says:

    The European Union is not a democracy. In many ways it is antidemocratic.
    We may vote for an MEP. But the European Parliament does not make policy or laws. Its function is similar to our House of Lords, but with even less power.
    All major policy, laws and rules are created by 28 appointed commissioners and their legions of eurocrats.

    I urge everybody to view “Brexit the Movie”. It is available on YouTube and is crossparty.

  10. Graham Taylor says:

    So its confirmed then, those who live in the past will want Brexit. Those who live in todays world will not. For the good people of Bramcote I would wish to see us connecting with the outside world not being an isolationist has been nation, led by the Tory Right Wing.

    Nick Palmer talks sense here and you should listen to what he says,rather than bury your heads in the sand.

    In Bramcote, as the moment, we have a team from National Grid changing the gas mains. Many are “foreign” They work like crazy, are very efficient and polite and get the job done.

    We should not use Brexit as an excuse for British Labour. We should embrace all that is good about immigration and move forward.

  11. Barry Morrison says:

    Just for the record I’m 74 years old(one of those who lives in the past, according to Graham Taylor). and have watched this european thing with great interest since 1961.
    I’ve never believed in it. I voted against it in the 1975 referendum and I’ll vote against it on june 23rd and NOT for the reason regarding immigration which Graham Taylor seems to think all of us oldies will do.
    I’ve made it plain before that if we could have some say in electing or removing the unelected EU Commission then I could possibly think differently about the EU.
    But back to the immigration..We’ve always had immigration into the UK right back to the Windrush years of the late 40’s and early 50’s when a lot of Caribbeans came to England.
    Then a few years later we had Indian and Pakistanis and in the 70’s a lot of Asians who were brutally kicked out of Uganda by Idi Armin and almost all of these immigrants settled and took jobs(a lot of which the British would’nt do)and over the years they have contributed greatly to the economy.
    BUT, the biggest problem now is when Tony Blair removed the borders to all and sundry and allowed unfettered immigration to the extent that we lost all control over who could come here and lost all control of knowing how many(legal or illegal)were in the country.
    Now I’m not going to comment about ‘foreigners coming here and taking our jobs’ which is not the way most older folks look at it.
    It seems absolutely crazy that we(under EU rules) can’t bring into the country highly skilled people of many nations.who will benefit the country, yet any amount of low skilled people from anywhere in the EU can roll up at these shores and it seems there’s damn all we can do about it.
    Whether you like it or not immigration(unfettered and uncontrolled)is going to be a problem and not just in the UK.
    And if we do leave the EU we won’t be isolated, why should we?
    Once the dust has settled not much will change.
    There’s too much nonsense and rubbish being thrown about by both sides now.

    • Ian Blakeley says:

      Totally agree Barry. I’m 71 and voted to remain within the EEC in 1975. Had I known about the federalisation aims of the leaders I, and I expect the majority of people, would have voted to leave.

      And Graham, Hitler had visions of the 3rd Reich stretching from the Baltic to the Med and at least as far as the Urals. Because of the depression he just wanted to be in charge of millions of people and lots of countries, and kill Jews, Romanies, cripples and those with mental problems. Remember Mussolini invaded Ethiopia for no reason at all.

  12. Barry Morrison says:

    And it does’nt end there. If Graham still thinks the British are using immigration to complain, just look what’s happening in Germany, Holland, Denmark, Austria and most of the rest of the EU so if Graham thinks we’re using immigration as an excuse what’s causing the problems across europe?

    • Ian Blakeley says:

      Did anybody watch Jeremy Paxmans programme on BBC1 last night. Trying to be open handed the number of politicians, some of whom were pro EU, who cheerfully admitted that the aim was for ALL countries in the EU to lose all sovereignty and be governed by a bunch of UNELECTED faceless persons with no accountability. Sounds like a Dictatorship to me; at least the Germans elected Hitler in the early 30’s.

      And the way they described EU downwards democracy. The Commissars decide on a law, National Governments discuss and tune it to suit their country, BUT if the Commissars don’t like the tuning the National representatives get overruled.

      WAKE UP Graham for your families sake.

  13. Ian Blakeley says:

    I’d like to draw your attention to this. And it doesn’t mention our referendum at all, in fact the UK isn’t mentioned.

  14. Graham Taylor says:

    My family and friends mostly support Remain and I am an older person who can vividly remember the times of Heath and Wilson and before that when De Gaulle said Non. Thank God we moved into the Common Market and then the EU.. We never want to go back to the dark days of the 70s.

    Most Brexit supporters I know cannot get to grips with Immigration. Pity that they cannot come up with any positive reasons to back Brexit.
    .Wake up lads (and lasses) and smell the Coffee. All the Referendum will do is split the Tory Party. It would never have happened if Cameron had not panicked over UKIP.

    • Ian Blakeley says:

      You said the lot there Graham:- Thank god we moved into the COMMON MARKET. Thats right Graham, a market that assisted trading between nations. Not a Federal Europe, not even a sniff of that from our illustrious(?) leaders most of whom were (I suspect) well aware of future plans. If it was a vote to stay within a Common Market that was not heading towards federalism and with existing federal moves rolled back then I would say we should stay; but it’s not so the best thing to do is vote out.

      I have no issues with immigration, provided it’s legal, other than the facts that I feel that immigrants should come to a firm job offer, be willing to integrate into and accept our way of life and rules. They should also be paid the correct rate for the job and should they commit a serious offence, or a series of minor ones, be deported without recourse to plaintive bleats about their ‘human rights’.

      To be frank Graham, I don’t think it’s immigrants that concern people. It’s the fact that Britain isn’t permitted to have control of its own border because of EU rules and has to let all and sundry in when they arrive (legally) from France, including terrorists. That is what concerns people.

      “All the Referendum will do is split the Tory Party”!!! That Ladies and Gentlemen is the crux of Grahams worries, the Tory party will be split. He’s not bothered about the future of the UK, just about his beloved party.

  15. Barry Morrison says:

    Come on Graham, you know the dark days of the 70’s were nothing whatsoever to do with the Common Market..Strikes and industrial disputes by Red Robbo in the 60’s, and then the miners strike in the 70’s followed by the industrial turmoil which resulted in the trades unions bringing down the labour government in 1979. How can you connect the Common Market with the dark days of the 70’s when it was all internal between unions and government and self inflicted.?

  16. Barry Morrison says:

    And if it’s positive reasons for backing Brexit you want, how long have you got?. I can give you plenty and if the vote is to remain as I think it will, then in 20 years time(or less)you’ll bitterly regret the day you voted to stay in the EU..I’ll probably be gone from this mortal coil but today’s youngster will have to carry the burden for the mistakes the Remain votes made for many years to come.

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